Comments on: Theissen on Customer Cars http://www.formula1latest.com/2006/12/31/theissen-on-customer-cars/ Formula 1 Motor Racing News and Views Sat, 08 Dec 2007 16:50:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Pat Symonds on Customer Cars » Formula 1 Motor Racing News and Views http://www.formula1latest.com/2006/12/31/theissen-on-customer-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-1380 Pat Symonds on Customer Cars » Formula 1 Motor Racing News and Views Thu, 18 Jan 2007 14:25:55 +0000 http://www.formula1latest.com/2006/12/31/theissen-on-customer-cars/#comment-1380 [...] Renault’s engineering director, Pat Symonds, has added his voice to those expressing doubts about the idea of customer cars in F1. Like Mario Theissen of BMW, he feels that the legalizing of customer cars in 2008 will create a situation where there are only six manufacturers running two teams each and that the championship could be manipulated as a result. [...] [...] Renault’s engineering director, Pat Symonds, has added his voice to those expressing doubts about the idea of customer cars in F1. Like Mario Theissen of BMW, he feels that the legalizing of customer cars in 2008 will create a situation where there are only six manufacturers running two teams each and that the championship could be manipulated as a result. [...]

]]> By: Clive http://www.formula1latest.com/2006/12/31/theissen-on-customer-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-1308 Clive Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:51:42 +0000 http://www.formula1latest.com/2006/12/31/theissen-on-customer-cars/#comment-1308 All good points, Qwerty, and it could well be Mercedes' behavior in the DTM that Theissen is thinking about. BMW must be very conscious of how Mercedes likes to steamroller the opposition. But I can't see it working in F1 - there are too many manufacturers (and drivers' egos) involved. As for fuss, I think it's all part of staying in the media spotlight. Theissen, Spyker's Colin Kolles and Honda's Nick Fry all seem to be playing this game, coming out with controversial statements to keep the press interested. They learned it from Briatore, I think... ;) All good points, Qwerty, and it could well be Mercedes’ behavior in the DTM that Theissen is thinking about. BMW must be very conscious of how Mercedes likes to steamroller the opposition. But I can’t see it working in F1 – there are too many manufacturers (and drivers’ egos) involved.

As for fuss, I think it’s all part of staying in the media spotlight. Theissen, Spyker’s Colin Kolles and Honda’s Nick Fry all seem to be playing this game, coming out with controversial statements to keep the press interested. They learned it from Briatore, I think… ;)

]]> By: Qwerty http://www.formula1latest.com/2006/12/31/theissen-on-customer-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-1307 Qwerty Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:30:50 +0000 http://www.formula1latest.com/2006/12/31/theissen-on-customer-cars/#comment-1307 I really don't know what the fuss is all about. If we looked at Indycars (Champcars) in the 1990s, everyone but Penske, Newman Haas and the Target Reynards (can't remember the team name) were customer cars. And yet, we did see customers (like Team Green's Jacques Villeneuve) win from time to time which I rather enjoy. And I cannot remember seeing any example of a four car tag team although Penske did run a 3 car works team. And I agree, we see no such problems in MotoGP nor as you point out did we have any such situation in the 70s in Formula 1. Perhaps, you can accuse Thiessen of being afraid of customers beating the works cars through a little inqenuity of their own. Worse still if they end up beating the works BMWs. If the situation persists and everyone makes their own cars, then perhaps BMW can be reasonably confident of always being in the top half. But if some smart alec customer gets some good cars, well...... But then again, you could point to the early 1990s DTM, where we see blatant examples of the multi car tag team. I really think team orders are alright but Mercedes took it a little too far in the 1992 DTM. Not only were the Mercedes teams asked to back the top Mercedes driver (which was o.k.) but the finishing order of each Mercedes car was also being decided in the pits rather than on the race track. Perhaps this is what Thiessen is referring to. I really don’t know what the fuss is all about. If we looked at Indycars (Champcars) in the 1990s, everyone but Penske, Newman Haas and the Target Reynards (can’t remember the team name) were customer cars. And yet, we did see customers (like Team Green’s Jacques Villeneuve) win from time to time which I rather enjoy. And I cannot remember seeing any example of a four car tag team although Penske did run a 3 car works team.

And I agree, we see no such problems in MotoGP nor as you point out did we have any such situation in the 70s in Formula 1.

Perhaps, you can accuse Thiessen of being afraid of customers beating the works cars through a little inqenuity of their own. Worse still if they end up beating the works BMWs. If the situation persists and everyone makes their own cars, then perhaps BMW can be reasonably confident of always being in the top half. But if some smart alec customer gets some good cars, well……

But then again, you could point to the early 1990s DTM, where we see blatant examples of the multi car tag team. I really think team orders are alright but Mercedes took it a little too far in the 1992 DTM. Not only were the Mercedes teams asked to back the top Mercedes driver (which was o.k.) but the finishing order of each Mercedes car was also being decided in the pits rather than on the race track. Perhaps this is what Thiessen is referring to.

]]> By: Clive http://www.formula1latest.com/2006/12/31/theissen-on-customer-cars/comment-page-1/#comment-1269 Clive Mon, 01 Jan 2007 15:44:47 +0000 http://www.formula1latest.com/2006/12/31/theissen-on-customer-cars/#comment-1269 Well, the <em>Autosport</em> article says: "As the possibility of legal action over Super Aguri and Scuderia Toro Rosso's 2007 plans looks increasingly likely, Theissen thinks there are even bigger issues at stake for F1. "He believes the freeing up of chassis sharing rules from 2008 onward will rob the sport of variety, and could result in just six teams producing cars for racing." That would indicate that he is looking beyond the current fight over Super Aguri and Toro Rosso. But I agree that Bernie and Max would help Prodrive to get a customer chassis to avoid their own embarrassment. I just can't see BMW being interested if Theissen's thoughts are representative of the company management's. Prodrive seem to think that their best bet is Mercedes/McLaren and, on this evidence, they would appear to be right. McLaren used to give out M23 chassis to anyone who asked but that was before Ron Dennis took over. These days he might not be so keen on selling their cars. Mind you, he has just built that enormous new facility that Briatore was mocking earlier this year. To be building twice as many cars might just be the justification he needs... Well, the Autosport article says:

“As the possibility of legal action over Super Aguri and Scuderia Toro Rosso’s 2007 plans looks increasingly likely, Theissen thinks there are even bigger issues at stake for F1.

“He believes the freeing up of chassis sharing rules from 2008 onward will rob the sport of variety, and could result in just six teams producing cars for racing.”

That would indicate that he is looking beyond the current fight over Super Aguri and Toro Rosso. But I agree that Bernie and Max would help Prodrive to get a customer chassis to avoid their own embarrassment. I just can’t see BMW being interested if Theissen’s thoughts are representative of the company management’s. Prodrive seem to think that their best bet is Mercedes/McLaren and, on this evidence, they would appear to be right. McLaren used to give out M23 chassis to anyone who asked but that was before Ron Dennis took over. These days he might not be so keen on selling their cars.

Mind you, he has just built that enormous new facility that Briatore was mocking earlier this year. To be building twice as many cars might just be the justification he needs…

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